It is indeed funny to see how the star lined up a band of people whom it called the voices of moderation.
Well I don’t care about the non-Muslim (not Malay) in the line up because it is none of my business to interfere with how they want to define the term moderation, but it is kind of appalling to see the Malays in the list. They are
- Marina Mahathir
- Zaid Ibrahim
- Razali Ismail (chairman of Global Movement of Moderates)
- Zainah Anwar (Sisters in Islam co-founder)
- Karim Raslan
- Azmi Sharom
- Anas Zubedy
- Wan Saiful Wan Jan
- Sharyn Shufiyan (Tunku Abdul Rahman’s great granddaughter)
I want to clarify that I have nothing against them personally. What I am against is the people who put them in the list and claimed that they are the voices of moderation that represent the Muslims whereas many Muslims (including me) and Malays are against their thinking and ideology. What more when some of them are well known for carrying ideology that is against the main stream understanding of Islam. Take for example the ladies in the list, whom none is wearing tudung. Zainah Anwar is also known to claimed that covering one’s hair is unnecessary in Islam, whereas the mainstream Muslim understanding all over the world is that it is compulsory. So how can the person ever claimed that Zainah Anwar is the voices of moderation for the Muslim while clearly she is the minority. If Zainah Anwar represents the voices of moderation for the Muslim, does that mean 90% (or probably 99%) of Malaysian Muslim women who believe hair as aurat which needs to be covered in public are the extremist? This is indeed insulting.
I am not sure if the person who put up the list is a Muslim or not, but for me, as a Muslim, it is a blatant misused (and wrongly used) of the term moderation for the Muslim. Firstly, the term moderation is a very misunderstood terminology. Secondly, for the Muslim, the term moderate is a religious definition where there are hadiths from the prophet S.A.W. that explains about the meaning of moderation. Therefore, to put these Malays (Muslims) as role model of moderation is an insult to the Muslim especially when some of them is known to have ideology and understanding of Islam that is against the understanding and practice of the mainstream Muslim.
It is Tolerate, not Moderate
When I dropped the word Moderate into Google, this is what I got
Moderate, by its adjective definition is the average in amount, intensity, quality, or degree. You cannot have an average if you only have one extreme. For example, what is the average of 10? No one can tell you. But if you ask what is the average between 1 to 10, then the answer is 5. So we can say that 1 is the extreme to the left and 10 is the extreme to the right. So 5 is the moderate value which is in between the two intensities!
The misconception comes in the noun definition. It says that moderate is a person who holds moderate views, especially in politics. Now the problem is that views in politics are subjective. What someone view as moderate may not be viewed as moderate by others. For example, to the non-Muslim, a Muslim who is not wearing tudung is a moderate Muslim. To the many Muslims, she is not a good Muslim. To the non-Muslim, a person who drink only in social occasion is a moderate drinker. To the Muslim, if a Muslim drink at any occasion, he is a sinner. People like Marina, Zainah and Zaid Ibrahim may think that they are the moderate, but to the many they are the liberals and to some they are the deviants.
The more correct definition that fits them is Tolerate. These people are not moderate, they are just more tolerable, for example, some are more tolerable to western lifestyle where they don’t mind to wear bikini or drinking in a party with alcohol. So does in political view. Some are more tolerable to opposing views.
There is no point arguing who is indeed the moderate. We can never agree to such a subjective matter. What is unbecoming is for the Star to put up these people and claimed that they are the voices of moderation among the Muslim. it is like the Star trying to shovel the definition Moderation into the throats of Muslim. Who is the Star to tell the world that those people represent the moderate voices of Muslim in Malaysia? That is why I say it is insulting.
A Religious Definition
Islam has clear definition moderation. It is in the Quran and there are numerous hadiths from the Prophet s.a.w. about moderation.
In the Quran, Allah S.W.T. says
“We made you to be a community of the middle way, so that (with the example of your lives) you might bear witness to the truth before all mankind.” (Qur’an, 2:143)
In one of the hadith,
‘Abdullah ibn Masood (Allah be pleased with him) reported that once Allah’s Messenger (Peace be upon him) drew a line in the dust with his hand and said, “This is the straight path of Allah.” Then he drew a series of lines to the right of it and to the left and said, “Each of these paths has a devil at its head inviting people to it.” He then recited (Qur’an 6:153), “Verily this is my straight path so follow it and do not follow the (twisted) paths.” (Collected by Ahmad, Nisai and Darimi; see Mishkat ul-Masabih, 1/166)
If you look back at the adjective definition, you will understand better the concept of moderation in Islam. In every moderation, there is always an extreme left and extreme right. So the moderate is the middle path in between the extremes. Picture speaks a thousand word. By looking at the picture below, you should understand better. This is off course according to Ahlul Sunnah definition.
What it clearly tells you is that Zainah, Marina, and the other ladies in the list are not the moderate according to the Muslim standard. They are indeed the extremists, the liberals!
I will list few more examples of moderation in Islam
| Extreme Left | Moderate | Extreme Right |
|---|---|---|
| Marriage | ||
| Priesthood, complete refrain from marriage | Marriage up to 4 wives (in this respect, Sister in Islam by Zainah Anwar is against polygamy, so she is not the moderate) | More than 4 and unlimited number of concubines |
| Relationship with Non-Muslim | ||
| Extreme enimity against non-Muslim irrespective of whether they have peace agreement with the Muslim or not. | Treat and deal with those who have peace agreement with Muslim with kindness, honor, respect. | Befriend those who are an obvious enemy to Muslim who are known of ploting to destroy Islam and the Muslim |
| Ibadah | ||
| Monastery life, i.e. spend whole life doing nothing except in prayer and worship | Balance between worldly life and time spend in prayer and worship of God | Only focus on world life and ignore worshipping of God |
| Charity | ||
| People who give everything and left nothing for themselves | Give some part of their wealth for charity and keep the remaining for own use | Do not give charity or alms at all |
So it is not difficult to understand moderation in Islam. It is something very clear cut and obvious. There is a law in Islam. Some will take it extremely lightly and some will take it rigidly. The moderate is the one who take the middle path.
Trying to tell Muslim how to practice Islam
This is the alter ego and ignorance of many of the non-Muslim today. What exhibits by the Star is the result of this alter ego. They believe these few figures are the “moderates” so they put them as the moderate voices of Malaysia without an iota to think if the mainstream Muslim actually agree with them. Arrogance is one thing, but such ignorance is unacceptable. Even for those non-Muslims, do you think they really represent the voices of moderate among the non-Muslims? Don’t they know that Zainah is one of the most loathe personality among the mainstream Muslim community in Malaysia. How can you ever shovel such person into throats of Muslim forcing them to accept her as role model. This is an utter demonstration of low class journalism.
You are also welcome to read
Grandmarquis's Blog 
Excellent article. Couldn’t be more clearer than this.
They are not moderates but they are stupid liberals who are being made used by the enemies of ISLAM yet they feel so proud of themselves. Sedarla that you are being laughed at by these same people.
This writer is assuming that ALL muslims prescribe to the “hadiths” and because you’re a Malay in Malaysia, you HAVE to follow ahli sunnah wal jamma’ah sect!!! What bullshit..
If the writer references only the Quran when talking about aurat, there’s nothing to substantiate the claims without referring to additional “Hadiths”. In other words, the writer and the majority of muslims are saying that Allah forgot to dictate in the Quran about the limits of Aurat and only described it via the prophet through the Hadiths.. Utter bullshit. The writer should have also wrote that Muslims can’t survive without the Hadiths!!! Blasphemous..
We are aware that there are people like you who do not believe in Hadith as the source of legislation in Islam. Fine. But the point is that what if the Star take people with the mind like yours and force it to the throats of Muslim to accept it as the role model for the voices of moderation for the Muslim, isn’t that very wrong? Because people with the kind of your mind and ideology is minority.
1. I believe that if you are a believer of the Holy Al Quran that you would also know that we should not fall into sects, as stated clearly in the Book. It is only a matter of a person is a Muslim or not.
2. Allah did not send an angel but He sent a human as his Messenger to spread His word. This is for humans to make better reference when applying His teachings. He created us with the limitations of human beings. Therefore i believe that to try to understand, it is not wrong to refer to the Hadiths and Sunnahs without making the assumption that the Book is incomplete. Have you read the Book that you can assure a person that you have perfect understanding of the Book explicitly from A to Z? It is the word of Allah. One that no human however poetic or smart cannot copy and come up with similarly. This is simply because the Holy Book is compact with History, Math, Science, Law etc that we know and we may not know/understand yet. Therefore claiming blasphemy is blasphemy in itself.
3. I believe the writer is talking about his/her understanding of the word “Moderation” and not the be all and end all of Islam to which only Allah knows.
Wallahu a’lam.
Love it. Well put. Om the mark. What needed to be said and clarified.
Nick
You are the one implying God forgot a lot of things in the Qur’an. Because just like aurat, many other topics are not detailed. As an example what is the aurat for men in the Qur’an? Is it found in the hadith explicitly? If not found in both sources, so men being naked in public is OK by God? Or should we reject the Qur’an and Islam altogether because a God that forgets cannot be God! This is the real blasphemy!
Well, you should ask the question to yourself because you are the one who is implying that it is sufficient to use the Quran alone and Hadith has no place in Islamic jurisprudence.
As for us who use the Quran and Hadith, we have no problem as some points that are not explicit in the Quran could have been explained in the Hadith. As for the aurat for men, there are numerous hadiths from the actions of the prophet s.a.w. on the issue. For example
Reported Muhammad Jahsh, “The Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, passed by Ma’mar while his thighs were uncovered. He said, to him, ‘O Ma’mar, cover your thighs, for they are (part of the) ‘aurah.” This is related by Ahmad, al-Hakim and al-Bukhari in Tareekh and in mu’allaq form in his Sahih.
Reported Jurhad, “The Messenger of Allah passed by me when the cloak I was wearing did not cover my thigh. He said, ‘Cover your thigh, for it (is part of the) ‘aurah.” This is related by Ahmad, Abu Dawud and at-Tirmizhi, who called it hassan, and by al-Bukhari in mu’allaq form in the Sahih.
There are many more. As for men, many of these hadith are not 100% explicit, therefore you will find differences of opinion among the scholars about the aurat and these differences are acceptable.
It is not my point to argue about aurah, but what it shows here is that people who claim Quran alone is sufficient will be in the dark in many issue and as for us we do not have any problem.
The issue is also not about God forget. Making assumption that God forget just because He does not detail it in Quran is just wrong. Can we also implying that God forget because there is no Internet mentioned in Quran? God decree things in His own way. Some of the detailing is through His prophet s.a.w. We follow the Quran and in the Quran it commanded us to follow the prophet as well. So we do it. As simple as that.
I’m sorry if my post is not clear, I’m just refuting Nick the anti hadith, as my post clearly stated his name at the beginning. Hopefully the author would not consider me in cahoot with this fallacy of the so called Quranist (God forbids!). In fact many would call me an extremist in my view for strict adherence to the Qur’an and Sunnah and it really hurts to see people who claim to be muslim yet forsaken the Messenger. And I am well aware of the discussions of the aurat for men in both the sacred sources hence my questions to Nick. Sometimes saying nothing perhaps is better as in this case. May Allah guide us all.
Then, please don’t say that God said that aurat is this or that, or that all of the requirements on muslim dress code comes from God, because it diesn’t. I have heard a lot of women who cover their faces say they do so because God has commanded so, etc when for me, that is blasphemous as no where in the Quran did God mention so. It is more correct to say that God ask us to be modest in our attire and that we follow the modesty rule as taught by the Prophet according to this man who said he heard this man who said he heard another man said the Prophet said so. That would be more accurate.
Well, you need a criteria to say that this is from God and this is not. Now you say it doesn’t, but for another person, she says yes, it is. So which one is which? Now Islam has something call scholarship. There is a precise way to determine whether it is or it is not. That is why we have sect like ASWJ, Syiah, anti-hadith, khawarij, murjiah, qadriah, etc. The difference among these groups is simply how each group say this is from God and this is not. We are not here to debate which one is correct. But in general, Malaysia follows the ASWJ doctrine where the doctrine accepts Quran and the authentic hadith as the source of legislation.
Now our problem is that some anti-hadith come and say we are the moderate, our value and approach is the moderate. So he is indirectly implying that all the ASWJ in Malaysia who are the majority are extremist. Well, if you think covering aurat is not part of Islam, the be it with yourself. But why brand yourself as moderate and others who do not follow your ideology as extremist?
I thought it is clearly written in al quran about aurat for men and women. I have to check back which phrases…
Allah SWT did not forget. 24:30 – 31.
Nick, you’re a deviant minority… don’t impose your anti-hadith views on us the majority sunnis.
AlQur’an and Hadith are two sources which we must follow to be on the right path. If you do not believe in hadith, you are surely astray.
The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: “Verily I have left with you two things, if you hold unto them you will never go astray! The Book of Allah and my Sunnah.
Ahhh.. So its ok for your lot to impose your views and believes in to others but but not ok for others to do the same. The author questions their legitimacy to speak for Islam. The same question can be asked of the author as to what legitimacy he has to speak for Islam as well.
For the Quranists in the world. Surely All of uoi have been deluded.
For the Quran mentioned thus:
http://www.surah.my/3#31
“Katakanlah (wahai Muhammad): “Jika benar kamu mengasihi Allah maka ikutilah daku, nescaya Allah mengasihi kamu serta mengampunkan dosa-dosa kamu. Dan (ingatlah), Allah Maha Pengampun, lagi Maha Mengasihani.”
(A-li’Imraan 3:31)
So what makes a person who denies what the quran says? Wallahu A’lam
Replying to Nick’s blantant respond. I would think he is extreme in his view. My reason is because he failed to point out his argument objectively and using vulgar words irresponsobily.
So we can see the difference between moderate as per the write and extreme person like Nick
nick, please read or learn about ahli sunnah wal jamma’ah…then you will understand about the true islam and muslim..i have a copy of a book entitled “I’tiqad ahlil sunnah wal jamma’ah” but in malay language…
nick, please refrain yourself from using the word “bullshit”.. it shows your personality & attitude..
You don’t follow the sunnah because you are Malay. You follow because its clearly stated to do so in the Quran.
Verse An Nisa’a, ayah 80:
من يطع الرسول فقد اطاع الله
which means: “whosoever obeyed the Prophet, obeyed Allah”.
Also Allah Ta’ala said in Surat Al-Hash’r ayah 7:
وما اتاكم الرسول فخذوه وما نهاكم عنه فانتهوا
This ayah clearly states the essential role of the Sunnah, and it says; “ whatever the prophet gives, shows, or command you, then do. And whatever he forbade, then avoid.”
So follow. Its quite simple.
And please refrain from using swear words to express your disgust. Convey your message in an articulate manner rather than resort to cursing and cussing. It does not become one to swear.
Question:-
1) didn’t what the prophet teach us is the Quran?
2) if we are supposed to follow the hadith 100% as you say, then why did the Prophet not allow his spoken words to be written down when he was alive for fear that people will follow his words and not the words of God?
3) if the Hadith must be followed 100%, then why did God only guaranteed that the Quran will be protected from any attempt to change it, destroy it etc and not the Hadith?
4) we believe that there is no God but Allah, thus shouldn’t the word of God supersede everything else? If so, then why do some Muslims put the Hadith above the Quran, while some put it at the same level as the Quran? isn’t that blasphemous, as you are saying that God and the Prophet is on the same level?
I believe 100% in the Quran, and I believe that the Quran is complete and serves as a guide for us for all time, as mentioned in the Quran. I believe that the Hadith serves as a guide, as long as it does not contradict the Quran. I completely disagree with some translations of the Quran that has added what the writer believes as Hadith into the translations of the Quran in order to make the Quran more ‘complete’. That, for me, is doing what God has forbidden which is to add on to His words. Even putting the additional commentary in () within the translated pages of the Quran is blasphemous to me.
I believe that the problem with Muslims today is that we do too much fighting over who is a better Muslim, whose islam is better or right-er, forcing every one to accept the Hadith that they accept and looking at those who don’t as infidels etc…when God has mentioned in the Quran for us not to fight over these thjngs as only God will be the judge. So, i feel that everyone is an extremist right now…the liberals, the moderates, the supposedly pious etc…every single one believe that their voice is the voice of truth. i don’t mind what you want to believe as long as you don’t force others to believe in it too! And that lies the problem…
People nowadays think they can understand Qur’an by just reading the translation. Do you how vast the knowledge and the sophistication of Arabic language is? Ask yourself, are you well-versed in Arabic Language and Grammar (both classical and modern usage), or Usuluddin or Sirah or Quranic Study or Science of Hadith or Science of Islamic Knowledge? If none, please refrain yourself from claiming that you can interpret Qur’an by just reading a mere translation of it. It’s akin to an average person trying to argue Physics with Einstein & Bohr. Sad for your ignorance.
Thank you Eday.. you have just summarized the real problem facing modern google aged Muslims… this malay proverb is fitting for this “kalau kail panjang sejengkal, jangan lautan hendak diduga” ..
And We have certainly made the Qur’an easy for remembrance, so is there any who will remember? . Quran (54:22) .
Only satan and his minions try to get people to not read the quran . You think you are muslims but you are practicing the corrupted and distorted version far removed from the original message . I hope in time you guys will discover youself how far you have strayed with your sects and your reverance for your imams and mullahs and you idol worship of prophet Muhammad . Just take a look at muslim nations around the world and you can see how bad it is .
This is the typical line to validate hadith using this ayat out of its context. No, the prophet is not here, to instruct us. The ayat were directed to the followers & sahabat in the context of war [59:7] & when fighting was decreed in the cause of Allah [ 4:75-77]
I pray to Allah to guide you into a Muslim’s shoe.
What claims do you have over your facts, Nick? I would love to hear your facts. Words of God is not understandable for human, so a Prophet is a translator to human. Hence, the hadiths (look out for what HADITH means). For example, you went to a foreign country and don’t know the local language, thus you need a translator to tell you abt the Lang and the culture. Read about how Quran was “translated”. We don’t call translated, but TAFSEER. Look at what tafseer means and why is it not the same meaning as the word “translation”.
2 main source of islam is quran and hadith, after that its ijma’ sahabat and qias(comparison). It is clearly that in quran you can’t just put everything in it. Or it will be thousands of thousands page long about every detail aspect of life in it. Thats why hadith explains every action of the prophet which make it easier to understand. Even there are some problem that havent exist in the time of prophet, thats where the ijma and qias come to complete it. Thats why islam is perfect.
Please dont show your idiocity to public, learn more about islam before trying to slam it down.
Hadith as a source? Heard of the concept of hearsay? Even in hudud it only allows conviction with 4 witnesses direct evidence. Not evidence of i heard him tellimg so as so about so and so. That is bad evidence. Try a game of ‘chinese whispers’. I am sure you would have played it in one of the btn courses. I did. The message was never intact. Now imagine messages which were never written, completely hearsay and passed through generations through political upheaval and conflicts over a hundred years. You are living your life based on this messages. Good for you. A lot of us rather live life on things more tangible and certain.
May Allah guides you, sir. Allah able to command everything in Quran but can you hold your mind to imagine how it would be look like if all in this book? Quran do state the aurat, n more. But for detail, we are refer to the Prophet’ hadist. Learn Islam more and dont be Christian just because ur dad n mum r that one. You will find the true path.
Just to clarify further here: Al Quran details specifically on the ‘aurat’ for the believing women in Surah An-Nur, Chapter 24, verse 31.
I agree…
my humble opinion it that it is kinda none if your business to interfere with anyone’s view on moderation whether they are muslims or buddhists or atheists or animists.
Agreed. But what the Star did is a direct interference with many of the Muslims’ definition of moderation. That is why we speak up.
then please explain this verse from Surah Ali Imran, if your claim about hadith is true:
31. Say (oh Muhammad) : “If ye do love God,
Follow me: God will love you
And forgive you your sins:
For God is Oft-Forgiving,
Most Merciful.”
To hell with your bullshit..its the writer’s opinion. If you can’t absorb it go read elsewhere..perhaps a klu klux klan page suits you well..
Minta semua yang membaca sebarkan
I support this article. “Moderates” is not the term that The Star was thinking of. It’s “Liberals”.
Ecxellent piece.Agreed wholeheartedly. Really hope Najib -the blind &dumb supporter/mastermind of this rubbish campaign is toppled down or better still kicked in his arse pronto.
Will share with as many people as I can..by your leave.Thanks a million.
Thanks for the encouragement
Just my 2 cents:
As much as I find your article interesting and agree with most parts of it, I believe we are not enttitled to judge who is a good Muslim and who is not.
I believe “the many” Muslim knows only Allah knows what is in the hearts of everyone.
I agree with you totally. In the history of Islam, there are many examples like the prostitute who went into heaven, a warrior thought to be shahid but went into hell and many more.
Yes yes, only Allah knows, but we should not take HIM for granted.
i agree…
At last someone said something really brave and bold to the group of the so called “moderate” Muslim who have been the term of reference for many. I always disagree with many of them like Sister in Islam, Marina Mahathir and Zahid Ibrahim. I also believe majority of Malaysian Muslim share the same opinion as yours. Thank you so much for this write up. I really appreciate it and will share it on my fb page.
Dear author,
Do you ever read the views of the above people? The campaign is against extremism and racism in this country. It is definitely not against Islam or Malay. The title of your article is provocative and the contents are taken out of context. In fact, it is seditious to say that non Muslims are trying to teach Muslims how to practice Islam (see the article). This is what I call a low class journalism, full of biases and hatred. Lastly, learn to listen to others with an opened mind.
Thank you.
The problem with the campaign is that the campaigner is trying hijack the term moderation as though they have the exclusive right to be called the moderate and the right to brand who and who is moderate and who and who is not. How do you feel if I say I am the moderate and you are the extremist because you do not subscribe to my values? Worse if I try to define what constitutes to be moderate and expect you to follow my definition of moderate?
But its a fact…non muslims are trying to teach us our religion…or their form of ot that is..just listen to the brayers and hyenas reacting each time a fatwa comes out that does not apply to them…they berate, insult, disrespect Islamic injunctions and gleefully raise up these liberals who will do and say anything for kuffar to love and accept them. Sometimes they seemed ashamed of their own Lord’s injunctions and prefer to ikut hawa nafsu sendiri dan the disbelievers…. examples if true teachings of islam disallow pagan practices of new year celebrations or valentine’s day celebrations…or idolatry in the form of white washed yoga…gosh, the hyenas come to attack us…we respect their sometimes incredibly asinine and dumbfounding beliefs and let them practice in peace but when Islam rises up with Truths reminding the its followers to adhere to the purity of Tawheed…wow, the kuffar jump up and down..sick of the bashing of our true creed by these liberals and their sponsors.
I posted this excerpt and your blog post : thought that it is only fair if i also post it here ..
I am seeing this going around and I have to agree (in general) with the writer. There are however some points that in my opinion is not well explained. The middle moderates painted here by “The Star” were inept. but no-one should be labeled any way or the other.
I have to digress that the painting and labeling a person either a moderate, fundamentalist or a liberal is also not the way of the moderates.
Because as moderates, we do not seek names and titles, we do not need them and we do not want them. hence i also believe this nature gives The Star a real problem in really identifying them.
Yes Moderates need to speak up, they need so that this country is not pushed to either one side or the other. Moderates have their own views and prefers discussions rather than debates. They do not hold either the leftist or the rightist as right or wrong, but they correct the misconceptions which ever those misconceptions might come from. they need to address the issues by weighing the facts, either religiously or morally.
This all depends in “Where is the middle ground” technically, in a view of an outsider or a non Muslim .. Fundamentalist : Extreme Right = Taliban and the likes .. beheading’s , genital mutilation, forced and induced shariah laws, Full Hijab and niqab and what not. whilst the Extreme left are or Liberals = They live like me.
Reality, whilst they are not wrong from their perspective. It is not in the perspective of a “real” moderate. A real moderate does not cordone the acts against the religious requirements, but they may choose not to force someone against his or her on will.
To give an example:
I “prefer” women to wear hijab in protecting their modesty, But I do not condemn if one chooses NOT to wear one. I will NOT agree to persecute a women if she was not wearing a hijab. I will give her in private my IMHO and whilst doing so with utter respect so she will not feel shameful facing the public.
Now the said requirements (religious requirements that i have mentioned above) like laws etc need to hold true until a complete discussion is held within the scholarly religious and additional necessary input from others are given full consideration. each and every point has to be discussed all the “i” must be dotted, all the “t” must be crossed without fail, but until this discussion is complete, the former remains to hold true.
This has happened before. e.g: back years ago there was a discussion about Alcohol status as Haram when used in perfume or medical operations. whilst the old views considers Alcohol as a substance itself is considered as “haram”, this was completely reversed when the understanding of how Alcohol interacts in the human body is understood! Now whilst this is being decided the former ruling must stand, until a fatwa is introduced!
So know what is the middle ground. before you try to claim it.
Love the read!
The malays line-up are not representing The Malays.I dont except them,perheps they represents the Malays belongs to the MURTAD groups and the ENEMY of ISLAM.
Becareful who you deem as being Murtad.
On the subject of apostasy ( murtad) you have 2 choices –
1. based on Kanun Hudud Kelantan 1993, you will be given 3 days to repent, otherwise ; “….maka mahkamah hendaklah mengistiharkan hukuman bunuh ke atasnya dan memerintahkan supaya hartanya sama ada diperolehi sebelum atau selepas diamelakukan kesalahan itu dirampas untuk dipegang bagi keperluan Baitul-ma:…” Bhg I No. 23 ( 4 )
2. or follow the Quran : Surah An-Nisa 4:137″ Those who believe, then reject, then believe, then reject, then they increase in rejection; God was neither to forgive them nor to guide them to the path.”
There is no death penalty to the apostate according to the Quran, otherwise he/she will not be able to repeat believing and disbelief . Allah will deal directly with such person. Because technically, The syariah has no jurisdiction over someone whom is no longer a Muslim. Say the person has joined the Vatican Church, and say he/she is present in Malaysia, what can the Syariah court do? What would be the reaction of the Vatican Church over their new subject? Think !!!
And don’t you think the ayat 4:137 is kind of liberal to the apostate???
Instead of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWJaqtRs5Bk
astaghfirullah….
Whilst i agree most of the points here, i think the writer will agree that he could have written it better, which could have attracted wholesome discussions. Doesnt feel like it really hit “home”, imo. Some of the points are a little immature in the explanations. But mainly i agree STAR’s article should mean Tolerant Voices not Moderate Voices.
i agree…
Such simplistic view. The writer’s main argument in the end just boils down to whether one wears or don’t wear the tudung. I’ve seen many whom I consider a voice of moderation who looks exactly as the picture of the women defined as ‘left’ and ‘right’ in the picture. I take offence, as the woman who this writer would define as ‘moderate’ by how I wear my tudung, at how this writer trivialized women’s thoughts and views based on what she puts on her head (or not).
Reblogged this on budakjipun and commented:
This is so true… Thanx for sharing the opinion…
so many orientalist in the country now
blabla bla bla.. talk about moderation.. the blogger of this blog doesnt even have the balls to reveal who he/she/it is, let alone criticize others. at least those fuckos in that pic say what they mean and say through their own face. apa apa hal melayu mmg bodoh la tu je citer dia. puiii.
Your way of putting your thoughts into words pretty much sums up yourself. many thanks!
I agree with the writer. What is all this call for the Malays to be moderate? As if they are not moderate already? Oh yes, the Malays are extremely racists, thats why in Malaysia you see no other races in the paliament, the Malays control the majority of the economy (haa??), non Malays cannot be found in universities(yaka??!!), no other religion can be practiced here, thats how racists the Malay are….errr..realllyyy???? Hmmm All this calling for moderation is trying to skew the perception as if the Malays are racists or extremists. Of course there are certain bigots and zealots here and there, not exclusive to the Malays. But in general the Malays have always shared the bounty of the country with others, only recently when certain quarters started to deride what the Malays hold dear to their hearts, Islam, Bahasa Melayu, kedaulatan Sultan then the Malays start to sound agitated. So if you dont like this situation..jangan jolok sarang tebuan., Jangan hina ugama kami, jangan hina sultan melayu..itu saja. Ini tidak, sana sini nak jentik ugama Islam, nak jentik Sultan, nak hina bangsa Melayu. Please please stop this.
Im 100% malay..but what with raja2 melayu? that one i can do without. As far as im concern, islam forbid any kind of hereditary position. Prophet Muhammad forbid it too.. mayb its volatility to b exposed to too much abuse. And that why we have 4 khalifas instead of his sons or grandsons replaced him. Only during period of ummaiya this hereditary start with much fight from general muslims..
When you start painting liberals as extremists it means you have made seed the point completely. Liberals don’t care what you do or don’t do. That is the definition of a liberal.
Did you just defined a woman’s worth if she wears a hijab or not?
Has anyone ever thought why, Muhammad never actually written a single line of hadith to supplement the Quran? his own handwriting? Please don’t tell me he is illiterate. He has been given the Kitab, mind you.
In fact, we depended on hearsay & human testimonial, which, to most rational scientist consider the most unreliable form of evidence ( Yes, I saw an UFO, Bigfoot, Elvis, Chupacabra and can give detailed description of them )
Even Saidina Abu Bakar destroyed his collection ( about 500+) after the Prophet’s instruction.
We question the Quran of not suffice of details [ 6:114 / 6:38 ] such as not describing women’s hair as aurat. But we failed to realized that we are actually judging the Quran from the aspect of Hadith. It should be the other way around. We lament that the Quran does not described the way to perform prayer or rakaat, because we simply inherited the religion without knowing what’s in the Quran. ( mind you, wudu’ is described fairly detailed in Quran )
So just because a women does not wear head coverings, and a man not having beard or wearing serban/ juba, it does not mean he/she doesn’t know the Quran. In fact, the Quran is meant to liberate us, and not hampered by a long list of do’s and don’ts. [ 3:49-50 ] Isa was to liberate the Nasran from various restrictions imposed by the clerics – making what was forbidden, as permissible. From being stuck with mud, he blew it off, so we can liberate ourselves like a flying bird. What happened to the Nasran imposed by the Jews is happening to Muslim where the Jews and Nasran imposed their belief into Islam via proliferation in the form of hadith 200 years after the Prophet demise, as they convert into Islam, establishing prominence and higher rank to them as ahlul kitab, claiming to posses greater theological knowledge than the arabs.
Muhammad is a doer. Rather than talk a lot. His actions testified by companion.
I totally agree…
Are you smoking weed while typing?
Here’s what you said:
“Jews and Nasran imposed their belief into Islam via proliferation in the form of hadith 200 years after the Prophet demise, as they convert into Islam”
You’re statement is wrong and despicable.
Now it’s plain and clear you’re just another misguided anti-hadith muppet.
Agreed . Prophets were sent to liberate us from the clutches of religion , not to create new one but alas , were back to square one so it seems .
We are following the jews & Christians, just look at them – the orthodox
Women head coverings were never prescribed in any of Allah’s previous kitabs, because such requirements did not exist in the Quran. Because whatever is in the Quran, they should be the same as the previous kitab. Because Al-Quran authenticates the previous kitab. All these headcoverings are man-made laws by the previous clerics, them being men, imposing women of all sorts of restrictions, strengthening men’s position to dominate over women.
please check – 3:3 / 2:79 / 2:89 / 5:48 / 46:12
I agree…
Good to see that BN has finally come to their senses and hired a English-speaking cybertrooper in trying to capture back some urban votes (“Non-Partisan, Simply Hate Hypocrite”? Yeah right). And it’s also good to see that this post has gotten the attention of the Red Bean Army and they have begun sending infantries here for the battle.
Cheers all around, people!
We must follow the Quran And Sunnah and Hadith Shohih
Example the hadith says it we must declare war on all the infidels and perform jihad. We muslims are the chosen people. We will get to heaven if we fight them! Yeah!
The infidels will be burnt in hell. We muslims are the specialest people.
Yahoo! Hooray!
does it really say that haha good point
Spot on.. excellent article Tuan Grandmarquis..
Couldn’t agree more with the article above.
Some has said that Islam focus on being (وسط) ‘balanced’, not moderate.
The extreme leftish path of those kelabu asap moderates the Star has been promoting is the same path that the Prophet has warned us about, the straight path to the lubang biawak.
I’m malay but i think god does not exist.
I believe in rationnality. So am i 9 or 10 on your list ?
you are not a Malay … stop pretending to be one. So am I.
ok… so what? what is the relationship of you being a malay and not believing in god? there are malays like you who practises paganism…
Meaning Indian Like You ?
Arab religionist and hindus share a very similar thing in that they both worship rocks (kaaba)
The wife of our YAB also never wears tudung…
Who cares about them.
UMNO=PAS=PKR=Penjilat tegar Cina Cina First Class Citizens DAP/MCA/GERAKAN
I hate them all. YES, we are the new breed, the Voice of Moderation.
The writer is using mathematical interpretation on what is moderate. it is like comparing germany in the 20th century. through proper propaganda by a very small but powerful group it became the norms for the majority to blame the jews/gypsies/gays for all the problem back then. Did it make these misinformed majorities the moderates since they represent the population ? Think again !
The purpose of this moderation action is to promote a tolerate society, in-conjunction of lots of hatred statements that can be seen through some medias and from the mouth of some irresponsible politicians. The moderation that promoted is more towards the society as whole, as toleration shall be promoted, rather than to be hatred/racist. I believe the The Star is promoting their point of view is not on Muslim/Non-Muslim, instead it is from the point of view of Bumi/Non-Bumi
somehow, to me, when anyone adds marina, SIS and zaid as their example, they lost their argument with me. those ppl has no “face” to me..
I like Marina Mahathir. I don’t loathe Zainah Anwar. Of course I am a liberal. I think the very idea of this blog post is an example of extremist. You claim that moderate equals average. Which means there should be people who are more filial than you and there are people who don’t care as much as you. So which is it? I think you mistake moderate with majority. Just because most Muslims in Malaysia believe that wearing a tudung is a must, doesn’t mean that view is a moderate view. Just means what you said. 90% of Malaysians ARE extremists. Harping on the tudung issue. its between her, her wali and God. you don’t get a say.
Well, if Ayah Pin claimed that they are the moderate, who are you to stop them? IS also claimed that they are the moderate, so what?
Before you want to discuss anything, get to the right definition. Without a proper definition, you are like shooting in the dark. Then anything that follows is just whim and fancy.
Yup…
haha … . The Nazi’s was moderate. Why can’t the moderate liberals just say what they really want.
They want:-
Free speech
Free Sex
Prostitution
Gambling
Drinking
.. and everything in between.
Thats why these jokers never a championed of good morality. They’re just moderate jokers who wants everything, .. and they want to get away with it.
Hey, don’t get me wrong, i know you want to fuck a pig, go fuck a pig, I bet Marina doesnt care.
Furthermore, Just because most Muslims in Malaysia believe that fucking a pig in its ass is a ‘No’ ‘No’, that doesnt mean that view is a moderate view.
Truth is, I dont care what you want, just stop telling others that others should want it too. Keep it to yourself. Liberal is a new religion, stop it.
how do i share this?
Btw, very good point author!
Also, I was really hoping that you would also write an article about Islamic Fundamentalist as well. I really do believe that people have got the term wrong.
In point of view, the fundamentals of Islam is what makes a muslim to be a true muslim. But Nowadays, people have got it confused, they always thought that the Fundamentalis are the ones that have gone astray from the teaching of the Quran. I think you get my point, so I really wished that you could do an article on that.
Thank you. BTW, fundamentalism is no longer a misunderstood term as many people have come out to explain the terminology. As a result, you will see that they no longer use the term fundamentalism when it comes to attack on the Muslim. They coined new word and it seems like “moderation” is their new in thing.
The writer is not in the right frame of mind when he decides to classify Muslim. Muslim, as human being cannot be classified. Every one has individual connection to Allah. I understand his point at ‘Star’ has an agenda and that agenda is promoting liberalism on the name of moderation but he just went too far and shows his hatred to rest of us.
For example, where does extremist organization of LEVANT stand:
More than 4 and unlimited number of concubines – they made many wives and concubines.
Extreme enimity against non-Muslim irrespective of whether they have peace agreement with the Muslim or not. – they have killed many yazidi and christians.
Do not give charity or alms at all – they dont believe in giving alms and taking everything on the name of religion.
on the other hand, there can be muslim who is friend to other non-muslim, lead a monastic life and give alms to everyone. Now, you might say such muslim dont exist.
Read about this person, he has been in recent history. He was muslim and he became deity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sai_Baba_of_Shirdi
Bumi are indigenous people of land and it’s great that Malaysia is one of the place where indigenous people have their right and privileges though some frown over it. Any reform movement based on rationality is always welcomed and bigotry has to be shunned.
The writer has an agenda and he dislikes any kind of reform, which every society need from time to time.
‘The writer is not in the right frame of mind when he decides to classify Muslim. Muslim, as human being cannot be classified’
‘The writer has an agenda and he dislikes any kind of reform, which every society need from time to time.’
Really Bob ? The only reform Malaysian society needs is for people like you to shut up and keep your ‘ajaran sesat’ to yourself. People like you wants:-
Prostitution
Gambling
Drinking
Free Sex
and anything in between …
That Bob, needs REFORM, NOW!
Whoever obeys Rasulullah, obeys Allah.
The teachings of Rasulullah saw, his Sunnah is in fact from Allah.
His saw akhlaq is in accordance with AlQuran.
I agregat wong the etiket.
WHO CARES IF YOU ARE TUNKU’S GREAT GRANDDAUGHTER? HAVE YOU GOT A DEGREE FROM AL-AZHAR? ARE YOU A MUSLIM SCHOLAR?
These all craps and rhetorics. I believe in peace. Spread love, not hatred.
Agree. Peace world.
for me every muslims is a da’i. some of us maybe our islam knowledge is not much but if we can show the peace and the good side of being a muslim through the words we speak, through our actions than it’s fine already. why people have a certain conception of Islam? Islamophobia? it’s because of lack of understanding. Most of the non muslims on the internet or the one that I met outside have the conception of how being a Muslim always have the MUST. yes, in Islam we’re indeed have the things that we’re obilged to do but is that everything about Islam? i would say no. Islam just more than that.
from what the writer wrote, it’s about how the people stated above is being put as a moderate by The Stars. People can agree to disagree to that… everyone have their own view on it.
Wow…this is so nice to see…Malays and Muslims eating each other out.
Now that half the country is about to be swallowed by the South China Sea…all these guys will be going round ….begging bowl in hand to see if they can get the money and technology to build dams and barriers to save their land…..while still arguing about which concept of their religion is right……
Next time the Japs or maybe this time the Chinese come knocking to run over the country…we should just roll out the red carpet….maybe then talk of all religion will stop and people will actually get back to work..
guys….
left and right middle whatever… my version of god your version of god.. why does it matter?
the concept of god and religion is man made. it was and still is used by the elite to control and manipulate the masses.
take the number of denominations within islam for example… and hey look at the number of denominations within christianity, buddhism, judaism etc…. heck all of them are so fragmented with ” i am more holy than you and you are wrong i am right.” Idealogies…
This is crazy, so when will this stop?
If sound minded people are criticised as hypocritcal moderates， all these people are just saying, hey cool it, there are other poeple in the world besides us.
If more of us followed the teachings found within the religious books rather than play moral police, then the world would be a better place.
If u look it, religion is a separatist ideaology, the same as racism, caste system, between rich and poor, between the smart and less able… the list goes on.
If u ask me… i say go out into the world more. Go on a sabbatical around the world, go to a different country that speaks a different language you do everytime u have a holiday, open your eyes to the howbig the world is.
Remember, religion started at a time when people travelled by foot and try walking 500km and you will begin to understand how different the ancients viewed distances to be.
Put that into context everytime u debate religion. Its good for persoanl well being its teachings but it does more harm to the overall population of planet earth when u have different communities living together as in the context of 2015.
With religion around there will be no world peace, any religiom.
carlos,
yes, Prophet Muhammad was given the Qur’an, but he is illiterate. he is. he cannot read it, he was given the ayat (or ayahs) either directly (by divine revelation) or through Allah’s Jibril teaching the ayat (ayahs) for him to recite. after obtaining or hearing what was delivered, he memorizes it by heart and preaches them to the rest of the world. in this whole process he is illiterate. he does not read the qur’an through the written book, he recites what was revealed to him by memory.
In reply to “Trying to tell Muslim how to practice Islam”
I find it funny that you have the audacity to say this without shame. When Malay Muslims say loudly that Islamic Laws is to be applied to ALL MALAYSIANS (Non-muslims, non-malays ARE Malaysians too, whether you like it/acknowledge it or not), Muslims are trying to tell non-Muslim how to practice Islam, how to live their lives.
Respect must be mutual. When you cry bloody INSULT when a non-muslim eat pork in front of you; Do you ever stop to think: You eat beef in front of Hindu and Taoist. Have we said ANYTHING? Don’t insult my religion! Don’t you DARE eat beef in front of me. I don’t want to see beef in the market where I shop. Please put all beefs into non-Hindu section, like how you put all pork in Non-halal section.
Who is arrogant? Who is ignorant? Who believes that their religions, their rights, their lives worth more and is more important than the lives of the the same brethen that you call upon when the country needs each and everyone of its RAKYAT? We are anak Malaysia too. Tolong laj jangan memalukan diri sendiri and say we are the arrogant and ignorant ones.
Hi, I’m not a Muslim. I’m guessing the vast majority of Muslims won’t care for the views of one who doesn’t practice the religion but here’s my 2 cents after reading your article. In my opinion, your views are that of the moderate Muslim. You have described the traits of the Malaysian Muslims that I have grown up with, and honored to have made friends with. I am certain almost every other non-Muslim in the country feel the same way. However, what has surfaced in the mainstream media/newspapers clearly doesn’t reflect anything that you have described here. Bigotry and muddling of politics with religion have reared their ugly heads and I am disappointed how much attention the media gave them.
This “Voices of Moderation” is a knee-jerk reaction, and it is just that: a knee-jerk reaction to provocative acts and unreasonable statements by certain groups of people who think they can do anything and get away with it. Personally, my impression is that people are actually using Islam as a tool to create political opportunities. In the end, all this will ever do is to teach and encourage contempt, discontent and hatred amongst the non-Muslims and rock the Malaysian community’s harmony.
Perhaps “Voices of Moderation” made some poor choices of Muslim spokesperson, figureheads or role-models. What will really be helpful to reinforce the idea that Islam incorporates moderation as part of its values is for more moderate Muslims like yourself to step out and voice their opinions. Like I said, my non-Muslim views does not matter much.
Are you one of those unpaid backers of ISMA that have been constantly told to ‘defend our Islam’ because our religion is being taken over by those who support the teachings of liberalism and feminism? Your ‘under siege’ mentality is being shown rather boldly and it is no surprise that your research findings are mostly based on what you have been indoctrined with and what you have obtained from SIS’s main website.
Not to mention that, it is too much of a coincidence that your attacks are mainly focused on Marina and Zainah, just because they *gasp* openly chose not to don a headscarf. Which as usual, makes every point that they make moot, because they don’t cover their hair. It doesn’t matter if they are opinionated, because obviously in your eyes so long as they don’t cover up, they do not deserve to speak on women issues? How about if we use the gender card now? Men would then have no right to speak on women issues because you are not even a woman, how can you speak out on what a woman endures when you don’t even menstruate or you don’t have child-bearing abilities? There’s a reason why these people are selected, being rational is one of them and obviously we don’t need someone who is steeped with deep hatred and a desire to fear-monger their other fellow Muslims to suscribe to their brand of Islam.
Read their opinions of headscarf with proper care, avoid cherry picking your findings and using bits of the Quran to support your patriarchal and misogynistic claims. How many Quran translations have you studied to come up with such conclusions?
And befor you attempt to shame and dismiss me as one of the followers of SIS, please note that everyone with an open mind can come up with their own findings and practice Islam in the way they deem fit to their Creator. It takes a lot more than being a sheep and listening to what your spiritual leader says. Just because The Star chose these individuals doesn’t mean you can’t. Go ahead, choose your role models. I would like to see who are these people that have gave you an insight on what Islam should be too 🙂
Good point and good analogy. Now using the same analogy, what if someone starts a campaign “voice of moderate women” but they put all male role model in the list? How would you as a women feel?
The thing about Marina and Zainah is not just about not covering up. There are whole lot of Muslim ladies that I have utmost respect and yet they don’t cover up. If you don’t cover up, fine, that’s your personal choice. But don’t go around to tell the world, I don’t cover up because there is no such thing as covering up in Islam. This is the fine line of difference between people like Zainah, Marina and others.
The point is that this is not a platform for us to debate on whose interpretation is correct with regard to covering up. But it is an undeniable fact that the main stream Muslim of Ahlul Sunnah who are the majority in this country and probably in the world have agreed on the ruling. Are they considered as extremist because they do not subscribe to the definition by Marina and Zainah?
Personally couldn’t care 2 hoots to what religion anybody believe in as long as they don’t ram it down my throat just because I don’t subscribe to their beliefs, ideologies & practises! Power to free thinking…….
Hurray for freedom of speech
Excellent and well argued. The enemies of Islam are trying to tell us what kind of Islsm we should be practising! The Star, FMT, Malaysian Insider, Malay Mail Online all have their anti Islamic agenda well planned
Get a life!
Yes, very true…all those rags promote islamophobia, instigate racial sentiments (mostly towards malays), inflame…under the guise of fighting for true democracy/voice of the people/seeking justice, fair governance konon… under Tun, these toilet papers would be flushed down the sewers already.
Lol.. Malay Mail online.. why? the physical paper is anti k-pop is it?
chill with the enemies of Islam thing, diorang takde masa nak menyesatkan kita dah.. semua sibuk nak buat duit. melayu pun sama, duit punya pasal, lacurkan agama. haih whattodo.
Is never underestimate the power of tupid ppl in large groups
what if the mainstream is wrong?…all this while…
Reblogged this on Hourihouri’s Weblog.
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